Comments on: Google Analytics – Ups & Downs from an Analyst’s Perspective http://coremarkanalytics.com/blog/2007/08/17/google-analytics-%e2%80%93-ups-downs-from-an-analyst%e2%80%99s-perspective/ Web Analytics Blog - Paving the way to understanding web data as it relates to statistics and other methodologies. Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:11:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.3 By: Robbin Steif http://coremarkanalytics.com/blog/2007/08/17/google-analytics-%e2%80%93-ups-downs-from-an-analyst%e2%80%99s-perspective/#comment-231 Robbin Steif Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:00:03 +0000 http://coremarkanalytics.com/blog/2007/08/17/google-analytics-%e2%80%93-ups-downs-from-an-analyst%e2%80%99s-perspective/#comment-231 I hope you are not implying that $60K/year solutions have <b>all</b> those options in your "downs" list? Sure, the customer support for GA is lousy. And you are right about needing extra resources to code things like exit links. But Wendi ... when was the last time you called Omniture and tried to get a response from them? Or the HBX support team? Ostensibly, you are <b>paying</b> for that crummy turnaround. Those SiteCatalyst evars -- you don't need any resources to figure out how to use them? How about s.props, they are just easy as pie, no resources needed? Come on - you need analyst resources even more when you are spending $35K or $60K or whatever per year. You are berating GA because when you need help with their free solution, or you need extra resources to code exit links or .pdfs or onclick or onload events, you end up spending $2500 or $5000 or $1000 to have an analyst set you up??? The most important comment made by Marshall came from <a href="http://www.webmetricsguru.com/2007/08/is_google_analytics_the_killer.html#comment-984026" rel="nofollow">one of his commenters</a> who wrote that GA has redefined the WA world. AFter all, Omniture's 2007 second quarter press release showed that they have about 2500 accounts. The last time I went in and created a GA account for a customer (maybe a couple of weeks ago?), I got a UA account number that was over two million. I don't claim to be a statistician (that's why I need your help with p and q, and am still waiting for you), but I think you numerical types would say that the installed base of GA (as best I can understand it) is three orders of magnitude higher than Omniture's. Visual Sciences closed 63 new accounts (for software, not including services) in Q2, said their CEO in their earnings call. GA probably "closed" more than that while I was writing this comment. Wendi, you are right when you say, there are things that GA still doesn't do as well as one would like. There are customers who still need software like Omniture and Visual Site and NetInsights. But it is time people started saying, "GA changed the analytics world, and it is never going to be the same again." Robbin Steif LunaMetrics Google Analytic Authorized Consultants (full disclosure) I hope you are not implying that $60K/year solutions have all those options in your “downs” list?

Sure, the customer support for GA is lousy. And you are right about needing extra resources to code things like exit links.

But Wendi … when was the last time you called Omniture and tried to get a response from them? Or the HBX support team? Ostensibly, you are paying for that crummy turnaround.

Those SiteCatalyst evars — you don’t need any resources to figure out how to use them? How about s.props, they are just easy as pie, no resources needed? Come on - you need analyst resources even more when you are spending $35K or $60K or whatever per year. You are berating GA because when you need help with their free solution, or you need extra resources to code exit links or .pdfs or onclick or onload events, you end up spending $2500 or $5000 or $1000 to have an analyst set you up???

The most important comment made by Marshall came from one of his commenters who wrote that GA has redefined the WA world. AFter all, Omniture’s 2007 second quarter press release showed that they have about 2500 accounts. The last time I went in and created a GA account for a customer (maybe a couple of weeks ago?), I got a UA account number that was over two million. I don’t claim to be a statistician (that’s why I need your help with p and q, and am still waiting for you), but I think you numerical types would say that the installed base of GA (as best I can understand it) is three orders of magnitude higher than Omniture’s. Visual Sciences closed 63 new accounts (for software, not including services) in Q2, said their CEO in their earnings call. GA probably “closed” more than that while I was writing this comment.

Wendi, you are right when you say, there are things that GA still doesn’t do as well as one would like. There are customers who still need software like Omniture and Visual Site and NetInsights. But it is time people started saying, “GA changed the analytics world, and it is never going to be the same again.”

Robbin Steif
LunaMetrics
Google Analytic Authorized Consultants (full disclosure)

]]> By: Wendi http://coremarkanalytics.com/blog/2007/08/17/google-analytics-%e2%80%93-ups-downs-from-an-analyst%e2%80%99s-perspective/#comment-232 Wendi Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:02:38 +0000 http://coremarkanalytics.com/blog/2007/08/17/google-analytics-%e2%80%93-ups-downs-from-an-analyst%e2%80%99s-perspective/#comment-232 Hi Robin - Thanks for the comment and I agree with the fact that the support for a paid solution isn't much better. But I think that knowing there is a dedicated support team is a step up. I like that I can pick up the phone and call someone. I absolutely agree that GA changed the analytics world. I use it every single day for several accounts (small and big). But we also use other tools as well. Being able to drill down into a users navigational trends is much better, ability to track more than 4 conversion events gives analysts more flexibility, ability to customize reports and include the variables you want to see and not what the vendor thought you wanted to see is a big plus in my opinion. I think if Google can continue to enhance their tool with greater flexibility I would be a happy camper! Cheers! Wendi P.S. Can you remind me what I forgot to answer for you? Hi Robin - Thanks for the comment and I agree with the fact that the support for a paid solution isn’t much better. But I think that knowing there is a dedicated support team is a step up. I like that I can pick up the phone and call someone.
I absolutely agree that GA changed the analytics world. I use it every single day for several accounts (small and big). But we also use other tools as well. Being able to drill down into a users navigational trends is much better, ability to track more than 4 conversion events gives analysts more flexibility, ability to customize reports and include the variables you want to see and not what the vendor thought you wanted to see is a big plus in my opinion. I think if Google can continue to enhance their tool with greater flexibility I would be a happy camper!

Cheers! Wendi

P.S. Can you remind me what I forgot to answer for you?

]]> By: Marshall Sponder http://coremarkanalytics.com/blog/2007/08/17/google-analytics-%e2%80%93-ups-downs-from-an-analyst%e2%80%99s-perspective/#comment-233 Marshall Sponder Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:48:54 +0000 http://coremarkanalytics.com/blog/2007/08/17/google-analytics-%e2%80%93-ups-downs-from-an-analyst%e2%80%99s-perspective/#comment-233 Thank you for mentioning my blog and my opinion on Google Analytics. What I trying to get across, was my own frustration with clients who are using Google Analytics and having complexity in their environments approach that of larger enterprises, but who think they can do everything themselves and not invest in Web Analysts as owners of a series of processes that make up a website. The problem is, as I see it, Google gives GA away for free (sorta) so people thing "The Value of Analytics"....is "free" ...I don't have to pay for it. The don't say...gee, we saved 35K that don't have to pay for ...let's help hire someone to take care of all this stuff we've out in place to measure ...they just think of it as something that can be casually put in place. And it often can't be - because they maybe be using sub-domains, third party payment systems, all sort of exotic combinations of hybrid solutions and expecting that GA is going to give them the answers they seek.....and it just doesnt work that way. I'm not arguing that Google Analytics V2 is not great for the grocery store or cleaners down the street, or a small office or a simple website that doesn't have that many pages.... or even that it can't scale up a bit. What I'm arguing is ..as soon as you scale up and the site and solutions become more complex, it's harder and harder to take an off the shelf product like GA, and make it work the way you want without ownership in the organization ...which out someone to receive what needs to be said and done.....and most people, most companies, according to what I've read from Eric T. Peterson, are unwilling to do that - especially when what they think they're getting is Free Analytics. But you and I know, there's nothing that's really free ... there's always a price to be paid. Anyway, that's for the mention of my blog and I hope I can help inspire some good thoughts in this direction and for Web Analytics and Social Media, in general, Marshall Thank you for mentioning my blog and my opinion on Google Analytics.

What I trying to get across, was my own frustration with clients who are using Google Analytics and having complexity in their environments approach that of larger enterprises, but who think they can do everything themselves and not invest in Web Analysts as owners of a series of processes that make up a website.

The problem is, as I see it, Google gives GA away for free (sorta) so people thing “The Value of Analytics”….is “free” …I don’t have to pay for it.

The don’t say…gee, we saved 35K that don’t have to pay for …let’s help hire someone to take care of all this stuff we’ve out in place to measure …they just think of it as something that can be casually put in place.

And it often can’t be - because they maybe be using sub-domains, third party payment systems, all sort of exotic combinations of hybrid solutions and expecting that GA is going to give them the answers they seek…..and it just doesnt work that way.

I’m not arguing that Google Analytics V2 is not great for the grocery store or cleaners down the street, or a small office or a simple website that doesn’t have that many pages…. or even that it can’t scale up a bit.

What I’m arguing is ..as soon as you scale up and the site and solutions become more complex, it’s harder and harder to take an off the shelf product like GA, and make it work the way you want without ownership in the organization …which out someone to receive what needs to be said and done…..and most people, most companies, according to what I’ve read from Eric T. Peterson, are unwilling to do that - especially when what they think they’re getting is Free Analytics.

But you and I know, there’s nothing that’s really free … there’s always a price to be paid.

Anyway, that’s for the mention of my blog and I hope I can help inspire some good thoughts in this direction and for Web Analytics and Social Media, in general,

Marshall

]]> By: Jacques Warren http://coremarkanalytics.com/blog/2007/08/17/google-analytics-%e2%80%93-ups-downs-from-an-analyst%e2%80%99s-perspective/#comment-243 Jacques Warren Sat, 18 Aug 2007 11:37:55 +0000 http://coremarkanalytics.com/blog/2007/08/17/google-analytics-%e2%80%93-ups-downs-from-an-analyst%e2%80%99s-perspective/#comment-243 Robbin, I don't see what the client base volume has to do with anything, except to say that people rushed to some free stuff from Google. I am not even sure those were all people longing for web analytics, and hoping someone somewhere would finally bring them its blessings for free. It was Google, and we all tend to react in a very pavlovian way when the guys from Mountain View release anything. But, humour aside, you are absolutely right when you say GA ended up changing the Web Analytics world, even if it's not a revolution all those companies were waiting for in the first place. However, I must side with Marshall. Everyday, I see just plain bad use of GA, negligence being the main culprit. I don't know why, but it seems that free tend to stimulate the wrong attitude in the business world. Sure, if you get free GA, and then work with a smart consultant, 10k or 15k will bring you very far, maybe even farther than some more expensive solutions in some cases. But let us stop saying "free", and start talking "price competitiveness". Robbin, I don’t see what the client base volume has to do with anything, except to say that people rushed to some free stuff from Google. I am not even sure those were all people longing for web analytics, and hoping someone somewhere would finally bring them its blessings for free. It was Google, and we all tend to react in a very pavlovian way when the guys from Mountain View release anything. But, humour aside, you are absolutely right when you say GA ended up changing the Web Analytics world, even if it’s not a revolution all those companies were waiting for in the first place.

However, I must side with Marshall. Everyday, I see just plain bad use of GA, negligence being the main culprit. I don’t know why, but it seems that free tend to stimulate the wrong attitude in the business world.

Sure, if you get free GA, and then work with a smart consultant, 10k or 15k will bring you very far, maybe even farther than some more expensive solutions in some cases. But let us stop saying “free”, and start talking “price competitiveness”.

]]> By: Sébastien Brodeur http://coremarkanalytics.com/blog/2007/08/17/google-analytics-%e2%80%93-ups-downs-from-an-analyst%e2%80%99s-perspective/#comment-269 Sébastien Brodeur Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:23:33 +0000 http://coremarkanalytics.com/blog/2007/08/17/google-analytics-%e2%80%93-ups-downs-from-an-analyst%e2%80%99s-perspective/#comment-269 Some of the point in the Down side can be argue. For example: - Setup auto-delivery Auto-delivery can be set. - Limited commerce tracking (only 4 success events can be tracked) Maybe, but you can use multiple profiles to get more than 4 success events. You can have 50 profiles, each having 4 events trackable (4x50 = 200 events). I'm not defending Google Analytics versus a paid solution. Having see what other solutions like Coremetrics and Omniture can offer, I believe that GA is not as "good". But for small site with low budget, GA can be a very good introduction to Web Analytics. I still believe a good analyst using GA is better than no analyst using Visual Science, Coremetrics, Omniture AND WebTrends. Some of the point in the Down side can be argue.

For example:
- Setup auto-delivery
Auto-delivery can be set.

- Limited commerce tracking (only 4 success events can be tracked)
Maybe, but you can use multiple profiles to get more than 4 success events. You can have 50 profiles, each having 4 events trackable (4×50 = 200 events).

I’m not defending Google Analytics versus a paid solution.

Having see what other solutions like Coremetrics and Omniture can offer, I believe that GA is not as “good”. But for small site with low budget, GA can be a very good introduction to Web Analytics.

I still believe a good analyst using GA is better than no analyst using Visual Science, Coremetrics, Omniture AND WebTrends.

]]> By: Wendi http://coremarkanalytics.com/blog/2007/08/17/google-analytics-%e2%80%93-ups-downs-from-an-analyst%e2%80%99s-perspective/#comment-270 Wendi Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:43:43 +0000 http://coremarkanalytics.com/blog/2007/08/17/google-analytics-%e2%80%93-ups-downs-from-an-analyst%e2%80%99s-perspective/#comment-270 Marshall - Thanks for all your great feedback and insight. I have felt some of your same frustrations and I think that some companies are not investing into the methodology and they have a false sense of reality in believing they get the package deal when they sign up for GA. Jacques - Thanks for the comment. I would certainly recommend; and have in the past, GA for companies with limited budgets. And as Marshall stated previously, nothing is for free so I like your "price competitiveness" point. Makes sense. Sebastien - I'll need to dig a little deeper and learn how the auto-delivery process works. Thanks for the heads up. However I did know that you can setup various profiles; especially duplicate profiles that don't require any additional coding so that it would open up more places for conversion tracking but I'd like to have it all in one place so I am not having to bounce back and forth between numerous profiles. But great comment. Thanks! Wendi Marshall - Thanks for all your great feedback and insight. I have felt some of your same frustrations and I think that some companies are not investing into the methodology and they have a false sense of reality in believing they get the package deal when they sign up for GA.

Jacques - Thanks for the comment. I would certainly recommend; and have in the past, GA for companies with limited budgets. And as Marshall stated previously, nothing is for free so I like your “price competitiveness” point. Makes sense.

Sebastien - I’ll need to dig a little deeper and learn how the auto-delivery process works. Thanks for the heads up. However I did know that you can setup various profiles; especially duplicate profiles that don’t require any additional coding so that it would open up more places for conversion tracking but I’d like to have it all in one place so I am not having to bounce back and forth between numerous profiles. But great comment.

Thanks!
Wendi

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